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Post by christerb on Nov 22, 2011 14:40:50 GMT -5
Continuing from the introduction thread:
Few highlands species, but mostly intermediate and lowlanders. I have been a purist going for species, and especially with location data. However, I have strayed into hybrids too, especially after seeing Exotica Plants fantastic hybrids. Currently I grow some different forms of veitchii and maxima, neoguineensis, truncata, burkei, ventricosa, tomoriana, attenboroughii, ephippiata, tenuis, petiolata, rafflesiana, suratensis, kerrii, smilesii, bokorensis, globosa, gracilis, ampullaria, northiana, adnata, boschiana, platychila, clipeata, and a few more. Hybrids: spectabilis x mira, izumiae trusmadiensis, truncata x ephippiata, (veitchii x lowii) x spectabilis etc. The last years I have mainly grown from seed.
Many of mine are small even though I have grown them for few years. Problem is most grow well to a size, but then they pretty much stay the same. However, the growth rate is okay, so no problem there. I now think that I have been fooled by the initial good growth, thinking that the light is enough as they grow bigger. However, I will start to increase lighting to see if that triggers them. The highlanders grow irregular for me, doing great, and then not so great. Not strange maybe, when temps during summer can be high indoors.
Another problem is that I have plants here and there, many bagged. I really want to build a dedicated area to make a neater display, and easier maintenance. I have been thinking of building a big wood terrarium that could be disassembled to be able to move it. Recently I have been thinking more about having a smaller green house indoors, or a grow tent (usually used by people who smoke their plants ;D. In winter time here it is too cold to grow in an outside green house, and the small houses are easily over heated during summer. However, indoors I think that this could be a great way of growing. I have seen some nice examples.
Regards,
Christer
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Post by H20 on Nov 22, 2011 14:58:25 GMT -5
Hey Christer,
This is awesome, I'm glad you've joined onto this forum because we have very similar taste in plants!!!!
Only N. attenboroughii eh??? Not an easy plant to come by, they grow deathly slow I'v been told.
I recently traded and sold away me entire Highland Nepenthes collection as I already have way to many groups of plants. I kept all of my lowlanders and several Intermediates as well. I have a small obsession with N. veitchii and N. platlychila and cant get enough of them. Right now I grow all of my plant under lights so I just have an entire section for bright light plants and the Neps just get put there. It gives them space to vine and go everywhere haha.
My list right now includes these, not many but then again all of the interesting ones are highlanders. Nepenthes alata (female) Nepenthes albomarginata 'Kuching Spotted' Nepenthes albomarginata 'red' Nepenthes clipeata 'Clone 3' Nepenthes clipeata 'Clone 3' Nepenthes gracilis Nepenthes maxima Nepenthes northiana Nepenthes platychila Nepenthes rafflesiana Nepenthes truncata 'AG' Nepenthes truncata Nepenthes truncata 'Clone 1' Nepenthes truncata 'Clone 2' Nepenthes truncata 'SG' Nepenthes veitchii Nepenthes veitchii Nepenthes veitchii Nepenthes veitchii (k) 'Bronze' Nepenthes veitchii (k) 'Striped' Nepenthes veitchii (k) 'Red'
I thought about making a large highland setup but realized it just wasnt worth in when I could use the space and energy for growing other stuff haha right now I'm using a lot of my highland equipment to grow Disa uniflora.
Hope to hear more on this and see some pictures!
Justin
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Post by christerb on Nov 22, 2011 15:43:58 GMT -5
Yes, slow indeed. I got the seed from S. McPherson in 2007, and they are approx. 5-6 cm now. But as I mentioned above I can grow easier species poorly too ;D However, some grower have had much better growth on their plants. It has been reported that it hasn't done well invitro either. However, it seems there has been a new seed collection recently, and hopefully they will do better.
Yes, they are great species. I have got N. veitchii from Sungai Samba, and Batu Lawi, and several young plants from Bario. I got me a tiny N. platychila from BE in 2004, which took some time to get upper pitchers. I kept it on the windowsill the last two years. It started to look poorly this fall, and I decided to cut and root some pieces of it. Fortunately, it seems to have worked out well. Since there is some variation in this species, I decided to get me one of their tc clones also earlier this year.
Some of the species with tougher leaves does well in lower humidity, so I have tried some on the windowsill. Other growers have reported good results this way too, so there is hope for those that don't want to grow Nepenthes enclosed.
Regards,
Christer
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Post by morphman on Jan 29, 2012 13:41:38 GMT -5
Sorry boys it took this long to reply but I haven't been on the forums much lately. There have been a few changes in my plant collection and I blame it all on Justin. ;D I warn you Christer Bulbos are dangerous ground. More so than Nepenthes as I recently found out. As it stands right now the only two Nepenthes I have left are a Maxima and a Rafflesiana . I do however have a lot more bulbos and other orchids ;D ;D Here is a list of some recent plants I got over the past few months. - Aerangis Ugandensis -Angrecum Didieri - Angrecum Chivalerii ?? - Angrecum Leonis - Bulbo. Facetum - Bulbo. Ovalifolium - Bulbo. Inunctum - Bulbo. Gracillimum - Bulbo. Laxifolium - Bulbo. Elizabeth Anne "Buckleberry" - Bulbo. Odontoplatum - cirrhopetalum cucculatum - cirrhopetalum Wendlandii or Collettii - Dend. Delicatum - Epi. Polybulbon "Golden Gate" - Epi. Fragrans - Medusa Nanodes - Masdevallia Floribunda - Masdevallia Pachyura - Masdevallia Globulosa Plus a few Miscellaneous ones I don't have names to. I try to stick to miniatures because I build paludariums and other natural enclosures so the plants can't be too big. Unless it's an open top but that's another topic. Here is a more recent pic of my tank and I am learning what conditions plants like it. Believe it or not there are several different micro- climates within the tank some wet, dry, shaded, bright etc. Maybe Justin can give a few pieces of advice regarding how and where to mount certain plants. Sorry for the poor quality pics. I use my phone. Mishaal Attachments:
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Post by christerb on Jan 30, 2012 17:45:59 GMT -5
Nice tank Mishaal, very natural looking. It almost looks almost like it is made for dart frogs, a piece of a rainforest. It is wise to keep miniatures in this kind of a setting. Apart from that you can have (buy ;D) more orchids, a plant which is too big would probably dominate in a set-up like this, and the tank might visually appear unbalanced.
Regards,
Christer
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Post by morphman on Jan 31, 2012 14:45:53 GMT -5
Hi Christer, Thank you for the compliment and feedback and yes you are right in your assumption this tank was designed with the intention of housing a group of Dart Frogs. I keep spending all my money on plants so I don't have frogs in it yet. Maybe sometime next summer. I already bought some more orchids. ;D Now I have too many to fit in this tank as I need to allow room for more growth. I am starting another build though and that's where they will likely end up. Regards Mishaal
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Post by H20 on Feb 1, 2012 12:17:42 GMT -5
Thats an awesome Viv Mishaal! I know what you mean about spending all of your money on plants and having nothing for the frogs. For advice on the orchids you have in there, the first thing I would say is to move the three Angraecum's into higher light, particularly the A. leonis. In the greenhouse they can handle the shadier sections but under lights they need to be closer to the lights. They should also be grown drier in a Viv, they can't handle the amount of water most viv plants can. The same thing goes for the Epi's they like bright light and drier conditions. Most of the time this just means placing these plants at the top of the viv where they get bright light and will dry out quicker. As for the Bulbs and Masd, they are perfectly happy with low light and moist condition, which I'm sure you knew, as that is most of what you have The Dendrobium should grow in there but you will have trouble blooming it without a large temperature drop, which won't be good for frogs. In a similar situation, the Medusa nanodes, is a cool growing and you might have troubles with it in a viv. Hope this helps! Justin
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Post by morphman on Feb 1, 2012 19:30:36 GMT -5
That is just the type of advice I was looking for. Thanks Justin. Yeah I've come to the conclusion that I need another tank for cooler growing plants. In my tiny apartment Wife is going to kill me ;D I am working on a Bowfront now that I will use for that purpose but I haven't quite figured an economic way to achieve a significant temperature drop in the tanks. What are we talking about here ? ten degrees, twenty ?? Any ideas besides an aquarium chiller or AC ?? I may never be able to have true highlanders thriving in my tanks
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Post by H20 on Feb 2, 2012 6:52:11 GMT -5
hey mishaal, To put it in a sorta blunt way, there really isn't an economical way of cooling an area unless it already naturally cool. Ex, a basement, cellar or you live on the west coast. I've done a ton of research into cooling tanks and grow rooms and its not easy to do, unfortunately the larger the area the easier it is to cool in an efficient way. For example, my old cool growing tank was 75G and took up an area about 4'x2'x2' then the cool system took up almost as much as that. Its just not fun to deal with, if you had a small place, say 10feet by 5feet or even 10x10 then you start to have the room to put in plant benches, an AC and a good humidifier to counter the AC dropping the humidity. If i were to start growing cool growing plants this is the route I would go as it works in the long run. If your not willing to use Chillers or AC you might have some problems haha if i were you I would stik to warm intermediate plants. I find that even if you have a cool windowsill, you can put a small tank right against it for the winter and they will help cool stuff but for the summer you'll just have to coast and you won't get amazing growth. The other alternative is to move to the west coast were you can grow highlanders outside for much of the year I would love to hear how other people are cooling their areas. I would bet that most people are using something natural like a basement or their natural areas temperatures.
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Post by morphman on Feb 2, 2012 8:26:35 GMT -5
I think after years of looking we have both come to the same conclusion which is....... " Not Feasible" . I first encountered this issue years ago when I was constructing a tank for some Newts that required pretty cold water among other things in order to thrive. I won't give up !! I do however still have hope I got this idea from back home in Africa. Over there the weather is Super hot and Super dry and cooling is definitely an issue. The options are spraying water, fans, coolers and air conditioners. The AC are the most advanced method and people only started to use them about fifteen years ago. Prior to that if if you had the money you got a cooling unit. There are still lots of people who prefer them over Air conditioners because the add humidity to the air. The cooling unit is pretty much a box with a water pump. The walls are air filters filled with straw. The unit basically draws in air which passes through the moist cool walls and is blown inside producing a cooling/humidifying effect. I have been able to produce a similar effect using computer fans. I managed to rig a drip line so that it continuously drips on a little sheet of LFS that is right in front of the fan. The tank was surprisingly cool after a few hours although I didn't measure actual temperature. Didn't have a Digital Thermometer then so I told my self I would try it again when I did. I just hope that I can get a decent drop in temperature without the need for hurricane speed winds. If I manage to make a build log for this next project I will show you what I mean as I will be using this idea. I'm just not really good at making journals. I really think it will work especially if you have a bigger space . I gotta get to work now. Thanks for the info man.
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Post by H20 on Feb 2, 2012 9:25:58 GMT -5
I find that cool water is super easy, with the Aquarium chillers they have today to can chill a large amount of water using relatively little energy. I found that hard part was transferring that energy into cooing the air, it just wasn't efficient enough for me.
Don't give up! haha I feel like I gave up in a way but at the same time I had to look at it from a different standpoint, I have a collection of Cyps and a collection of Sarracenia outside, a collection of Nep, Bulbo's, jewels, pleruos and other species inside as well as an intermediate section with Heliamphora, more Neps, Disas and a few other things haha I started to realize it was a little too much to handle and had to cut the idea.
Ironically I'm moving to Victoria where cooling is much easier and would have been able to keep cool growers very easily. Funny how those rings work.
What your referring to is Evaporative Cooling, they do work wonders in many cases but I do find they have one major flaw. Most people use Evaporative Cooling pads (much like the ones you described) to cool their greenhouses. A couple of factors play into this, the temperature outside as well as the humidity. The humidity is the big catch, the lower the humidity outside, the greater cooling you will get because the dry air will be able to evaporate more water which results in more cooling. If the humidity outside is 90% you're going to get very little cooling because the air is already saturated with water and very little evaporation will occur, at 100% you get no cooling.
I thought of trying this route for a large tank but the only way you would be able to pull it off is if you used only air from outside the tank and pulled it through the cooling pads into the tank. If you used air from inside the tank to cool you would eventually hit 100%RH and cooling would stop.
A friend of mine has a large greenhouse that he cools using this method (and boy does he hate Ontario's humid hot summers) I might ask him if I can get pictures to show everyone how he does it. When I get a greenhouse this will be the way I'll go even if I'm growing warm stuff, it just helps to add humidity and keep things stable in hot summers.
I really hope you do keep a log, even if you add pictures every so ofter. I'm hoping to add some pictures of mine soon, unfortunately I won't be planting it until April or May but it's almost finished now.
Justin
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Post by 31drew31 on Feb 2, 2012 11:00:38 GMT -5
I would love to hear how other people are cooling their areas. I would bet that most people are using something natural like a basement or their natural areas temperatures. As Mishaal knows, this is exactly how I cool my grow tent. Dryer ducting going to a window that has a fan on the end blowing the cool air in. Fan is connected to a thermostat. This can also work well for a small tank, but precautions need to be taken when using freezing air in a tiny enclosed space as anyone who frequents OCPS now knows. I haven't had to go through a summer with my set up yet, but night time temps fall into the 50's even during summer, so night time cooling should be a problem. Day time cooling may require an AC unit, but will only need to be ran for 3-4 months Im hoping.
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Post by H20 on Feb 3, 2012 8:09:19 GMT -5
thats awesome that your night time temperatures still drop into the 50's during the summer, thats a no-brainer to grow cool growing plants. thats kind of like Victoria BC, you can easily have a highland greenhouse without worries of heat stress.
Unlike here in Ontario where last summer the night temps where 30C! death to all highlander without cooling.
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Post by morphman on Feb 3, 2012 11:32:26 GMT -5
Ok guys
After taking everything mentioned into consideration I still believe it can be done. I have used air pumps before to introduce air inside a tank and I also think that if there are no animals to escape then I might be able to bet a way with just having a screen or open top. That should allow for much more evaporation.
What do you think ??
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Post by morphman on Feb 5, 2012 22:31:02 GMT -5
Drew is there anyway to hook up a temperature sensor so that it is connected to the fan but takes it's readings from inside the tank ?? You know how I am when it comes to looks and my problem is having all that without it being visible I just read that post on OCPS about that poor guy who lost his entire collection cause of cold air. I feel bad for him but now I'm even more determined to find a solution. I was really thinking about an aquarium chilling unit bu to get a decent temperature drop you would have to use some pretty cold water and that might also end up damaging the plants.
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